Kate Elliott ([info]kateelliott) wrote,
@ 2008-10-28 21:23:00
Previous Entry  Add to memories!  Tell a Friend  Next Entry
Entry tags:crossroads, crown of stars, writing process

Questions: Theme: Planned in advance or develop as you go?
[info]musingaloud asks: Do you think of theme in the early stages of writing, or let it develop from your subconscious as you go?


Yes.

Oh, wait, that was the answer to the last question.



I do both. In fact, I think this directly mirrors my outlining/not-outlining answer, because I feel it’s all part of the same process.

I do have thematic issues in mind in the early stages of developing a story, and I think about and develop the story in light of those themes.

For instance, one of the thematic elements in the Crossroads trilogy is that of corruption--how individuals and even cultures can become corrupt, how we slide into corruption without being aware we are falling there, and how we rationalize what is going on even as we cross under the gate of corruption.

If you’ve read the first two books, Spirit Gate and Shadow Gate, I don’t need to explain how that works within the story; it continues to be a major thematic element in book three, as suggested by the title, Traitors’ Gate.

At the same time, things will come up I did not expect.

For example, in King’s Dragon I deliberately made Hugh beautiful, well spoken, melodious, charismatic, well mannered, well dressed, and in every possible way outwardly a person one would be pleased to meet and associate with and admire. One reason I chose to do this was because I am shallow, and I enjoy writing about handsome men. Another was because I had read one too many novels or seen one too many films in which you can instantly identify the villain and his minions because of their gross behavior, their pimples, their slovenly dress, or their fearful appearance.

But the third--the main--reason was to create dramatic contrast between his outward beautiful physical appearance and manners and his actual inward psychological state, which is twisted and evil (this is not a spoiler as potential readers should figure out Hugh within one sentence of meeting him).

In fact, I made sure to contrast Hugh’s outward beauty and inward twistedness with that of other characters: Agius’s inward torment, the wall Liath builds “around her heart” to protect herself, Hanna’s good-heartedness, Alain’s clarity of spirit, and so on.

During the course of continuing research in the early medieval period after I was already writing the books, I ran across the notion of the inner heart and the outer seeming in source material from the Middle Ages. Reading the lives of saints and bishops from the early period, I discovered that these medieval folks were themselves aware of and eager to discuss, within the context of their times, the contrast or balance between the inner heart and the outer seeming. It seemed I had been examining this very theme without consciously being aware I was examining it, if you see what I mean.

Once I realized what interesting thematic material this was, and how much it was already present in the narrative, I began to use it more deliberately. A careful read of the Crown of Stars books will show that later on I more consciously flag this thematic material or put my characters in situations (especially Alain) to illuminate or raise the question.

Thematically (for me as a writer) I feel a novel or series is a success if

1) I have to my satisfaction explicated a thematic element from the outset, something I wanted to explore, and

2) if one or preferably more thematic elements crop up in the course of the writing that I did not specifically intend.

I have learned to trust my subconscious. It does a lot of work for me, and this is true in the matter of themes as well. Also, frankly, it’s interesting to see what bubbles up from the deeps. I mean, really, you never know, do you?




(20 comments) - (Post a new comment)


[info]desperance
2008-10-29 08:32 am UTC (link)
One reason I chose to do this was because I am shallow, and I enjoy writing about handsome men.

Yay! Can we form a club?

*is shallow too*

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]kateelliott
2008-10-29 08:40 am UTC (link)
Yes! Definitely! I prefer not to be shallow alone.

But what shall we call it?

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)


[info]desperance
2008-10-29 09:00 am UTC (link)
Splish-splosh? (these are the sounds of the shallows)

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]mizkit
2008-10-29 10:55 am UTC (link)
The Charming Bastards Club? Or the Fans of Charming Bastards Club? Or the Writers of Charming Bastards Club? :)

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)


[info]renesears
2008-10-29 12:59 pm UTC (link)
The Wickham Club?

*brain is stuck on Austen today*

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)


[info]sylvia_rachel
2008-10-29 01:19 pm UTC (link)
The Wickham & Willoughby Club? ;^)

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]desperance
2008-10-29 08:38 am UTC (link)
Seriously, though: I dunno so much about theme. To be sure, there is something in my head when I begin, and it may be quite solid and even plausible; f'rinstance, the impetus for the books I'm writing now, where I wanted to write about the contemporary relationship between Taiwan and mainland China, only in terms of imperial China, with dragons. Actually in the making, though, the story is moving away from any obvious parallel, and tending to explore more those things that I always end up writing about. (I have been heard to say "All literature is about betrayal, in the last analysis.")

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]kateelliott
2008-10-29 08:41 am UTC (link)
"All literature is about betrayal, in the last analysis."

Well, that covers Traitors' Gate.

I do think about thematic issues, but that's an artifact of the way my mind works. I don't think everyone should or ought to, if you know what I mean. Nor do I think that a conscious effort to explicate a theme necessarily makes a book more, um, profound -- although I am hesitant to use that word.

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]mizkit
2008-10-29 10:57 am UTC (link)
I never consciously think about theme, and am truly impressed and awed by people who do. I think I'd panic and run the other direction. :)

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]neutronjockey
2008-10-29 11:37 am UTC (link)
Huh.
(Hear that Catie, you made me say, "Huh.")

Now see, I enjoy over-thinking writing ... I like to understand the author's rhyme and reason and delve into the themes and motifs. Not at all saying that a good fantasy romp isn't worthwhile --- just that even in a 'simple plot' there are subconscious layers.

Me and Jung (and Ginsberg) man, we hang out.

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]sylvia_rachel
2008-10-29 01:18 pm UTC (link)
Me, too.

Well, that is, I can sometimes look back over something I've written and spot themes in it (look! it's all about good and bad fathers!), but I swear I didn't put them there on purpose.

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]bloodatmidnight
2008-10-29 12:16 pm UTC (link)
I think it must be something like this for many writers - because even if they plan out a specific theme at the outset and are determined to focus on it, they will still find that there are other themes in there as they proceed through the story. I'm sure you as well must discover new things you didn't even realize you had implicated when you reread whole chapters or parts.

(Reply to this)


[info]deborahjross
2008-10-29 05:00 pm UTC (link)
I begin with good intentions and grandiose aspirations, but somewhere in the process of turning these into prose, discover that whatever I thought the story was about, I was wrong. There's something far more resonant under all that illusion-of-competence. If I am willing to let go of "the way it has to be" and to listen deeply, to kill my darlings and create space for the "underneath" to emerge, I get to watch something miraculous unfold.

(Reply to this)


[info]pdlloyd
2008-10-29 05:07 pm UTC (link)
I don't necessarily think about my stories in terms of theme, but I think those themes are there. I was rather shocked when someone pointed out of the light, humorous fantasy novel I'd started (to get away from my more angsty writing) that I was carrying forward the theme of abuse and betrayal within relationships. I've since discovered that this creeps into a lot of what I write and have come to accept that this is just the way it is.

(Reply to this)

CHU HERE
[info]chibicharibdys
2008-10-29 05:42 pm UTC (link)
I need to join the Charming Bastards Club!!!

(Reply to this)


[info]musingaloud
2008-10-29 10:04 pm UTC (link)
Yes.
Oh, wait, that was the answer to the last question.


Heheh... I think I'm starting to discern a pattern here!

Seriously though, thanks for answering the questions. I've enjoyed the discussions a lot.

(Reply to this)


[info]aberwyn
2008-10-30 12:06 am UTC (link)
I don't think about theme. I think about characters. The characters, however, have issues that they want to talk about, and they do. Boy, do they! Thus some of the themes in my work have little relevance to our world, since they don't live it.

No -- really.

(Reply to this)


[info]alasse_fae
2008-10-30 01:19 am UTC (link)
One reason I chose to do this was because I am shallow, and I enjoy writing about handsome men.

Glad to know there's a precedent ;) Strangely enough everything I write has a male character who looks exactly like Richard Armitage...

(Reply to this)

Yes, I know this is an old post.
[info]della_d
2009-04-16 02:06 am UTC (link)
However, I wanted to publicly note that of all the characters I have met, Hugh is by far the worst. Worst, the superlative.

Meaning, I hated and feared him the most. If he was mentioned in a chapter, especially if he showed up in person, I was speeding through that chapter or encounter in order to inch away from him (didn't realize it until after, several different times). I wanted to smack the people that were sold on him, but I totally could see why they were.

So, um, yeeah. I think you hit it on that one.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Re: Yes, I know this is an old post.
[info]kateelliott
2009-08-09 05:50 am UTC (link)
A belated reply to your comment, but I just wanted to say: thank you! I always love hearing how much people hate Hugh.

(Reply to this) (Parent)


(20 comments) - (Post a new comment)

Create an Account
Forgot your login or password?
Login w/ OpenID
English • Español • Deutsch • Русский…